Zoe Haseman: Talk Less, Do More

Zoe Haseman: Talk Less, Do More

Zoe Haseman is the Head of Sustainability for Infrastructure at EQT Partners. In this episode, she joins Jenn to discuss why this moment calls for proving sustainability's value rather than talking about it, how to build relationships that embed change in portfolio companies, and why keeping things simple often delivers the best results.

Useful Links:

Follow Zoe on LinkedIn here. 

Find out more about EQT here

Read Zoe’s book recommendations: Start with Why by Simon Sinek and Business as Unusual by Anita Roddick

Click here for the episode web page. This episode is also available on YouTube.

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This podcast is brought to you by Re:Co, a tech-powered advisory company helping private market investors pursue sustainability objectives and value creation in tandem. 

Produced by Chris Attaway

Artwork by Harriet Richardson

Music by Cody Martin

Transcript

[00:00:00] ZOE: We know that sustainability is a lever for value creation. Let's just prove it out. Let's just make it happen. We don't need to talk about it. We've been in the headlines, we've had lots of conversations. We've been on lots of stages and done lots of presentations at times where people wanted us there and they wanted to hear from us about sustainability.

[00:00:19] ZOE: And right now that isn't the case and that's fine. People wanna talk about ai, people wanna talk about other things, that's fine, but our work is still out there to be done, and those proof points are still out there to be proved. So for me, it's like a, okay, let's just do the work and it will speak for itself.

[00:00:47] JENN: Welcome to the Future and Sound podcast. I am your host, Jen Wilson. This is a podcast where we discuss people, planet, and profit. In each episode, we'll learn from world-leading experts who can help us see the future we want and our role in it.

[00:01:13] JENN: This is episode 42, talk less. Do more.

[00:01:21] JENN: Zoe Hayman joined EQT Partners in October, 2022. Zoe works closely with EQ T'S investment advisors to integrate sustainability across all stages of the deal cycle. Ensuring how EQT does business creates a positive impact. Zoe supports portfolio companies by collaborating with them to accelerate sustainable transformation across the investment operations.

[00:01:46] JENN: And focuses on unlocking value creation. Prior to this role, Zoe was a sustainability technical lead on major infrastructure projects, and has over 20 years international experience as a sustainability leader working across multiple sectors and industries. In addition to this, she's also on the board of a nonprofit named Engineers Without Borders uk.

[00:02:10] JENN: Zoe, welcome to the Future in Sound podcast. Thanks, Jen. Nice to be here.

[00:02:17] JENN: And you know, obviously you and I know each other pretty well, Zoe. Um, but for the audience, I'd just love it if you could share a little bit about your background and how you got into sustainability. 

[00:02:27] ZOE: Okay, well this is very much gonna date me if the 20 plus years and sustainability hasn't already. Um, but being a child of the eighties, growing up through that era, I was fascinated by the idea of humans causing pollution and acid rain.

[00:02:43] ZOE: That was the big sort of like. Environmental issue of the day when I was, when I was a kid growing up, and I remember reading this book about it, thinking, why would we be doing that to ourselves? This doesn't make any sense. And I think it was honestly, back in that time that it just struck a chord with me so deeply that I was.

[00:03:04] ZOE: This is my life's mission. This is what I need to set out and set myself up for to, to be able to try and save the planet. Um, so yeah, big ambitions as a little kid. Um, but yeah, it was, it, it did seriously strike a chord and where my passion always led. And it, you know, I did an environmental science degree off the back of that and yeah, it's actually nearly 25 years working in sustainability.

[00:03:27] JENN: It's so rare, you know, it's, it's actually quite rare, especially in private market sustainability teams to have that, you know, starting in environmental science and continuing in the environmental sphere leading up until, uh, a role today, I'm, I'm really curious, how does that change your perspective when it comes to working in sustainability, given that you've been in this space for a couple of decades?

[00:03:52] ZOE: I think with that experience comes wisdom, right? Just because you've seen so much, like sustainability has evolved so much over that timeframe from it being not something people weren't really talking about within businesses at the boardroom, at at that high level. To something where they absolutely were and they were pulling people in.

[00:04:15] ZOE: Um, and then everything in between really. So, you know, you've had the days where you are one of the most popular people and you've had the days where you are one of the people that you're like, who are you? Why are you working here? And I think with those two extremes, you have to develop like a lot of skills and tactics and strategies to be able to figure out why you are there and what you are there to do, and what you are hoping to achieve, and how you're gonna go about doing it to get the outcomes that you need for that business.

[00:04:46] ZOE: I would say my career has been sort of like, it's never been, there's never been a dull day, there's never been the day that's been the same. And it's been an absolute evolution and a journey where I've just kept learning throughout the last two decades in terms of how I can best bring what I know to bring, to be able to get those outcomes.

[00:05:03] ZOE: And I think what's always helped me in. You know, been my compass throughout that is what is it that, you know, what's my personal purpose and mission and how do I sort of like bring that into the business that I'm working with? And I've, you know, moved around various sectors and various companies, but always been very much like, I want to learn and I want to bring, I wanna have a, a po bring a positive impact to the company that I work for.

[00:05:27] ZOE: And what does that look like for that company? And just being very much like that's the anchor. And then you know, the tactics, the strategies, and you know, the stakeholder manager management around that varies and evolves with every job, depending on what's going on in the world. It sounds like 

[00:05:44] JENN: that core purpose really helps you to stay resilient as things inevitably change.

[00:05:49] JENN: Maybe 2021. It was easy to be on the top five, uh, uh, issues that the board was focusing on. It's harder right now. That will change again. Yeah. It sounds like you know, that clear sense of purpose helps to navigate and stay resilient over the long term. 

[00:06:05] ZOE: Absolutely. And I think it's also about, you know, understanding where each business or, you know, depending on where you're working or you know, the context for your job, your role at the time, it's like, where is that business at and where do they need to go as well?

[00:06:18] ZOE: And really tuning into that part of it and meeting. Meeting the business, meeting the stakeholders where they are as well, to take them on that next part of the journey. Um, when I started, you mentioned my, my role at Jacobs. Um, it was a newly created role back in 2018 as the global head of Ja, um, global head of sustainability.

[00:06:40] ZOE: Um, and it was right at the time, and I mean, I feel like at the time I, I couldn't have timed it better because it was right when Larry Fink sent his, you know, the famous 2018 letter, letter to his shareholders and for the first time really. Really sort of like double down on the importance of sustainability.

[00:07:00] ZOE: And you know, for me, coming into a new role, newly created role, where I was gonna be working with the C-Suite, the board, to really sort of like set out what's Jacobs's position, what's our vision gonna be? Having something like that. And that was a major milestone for anyone working in sustainability in the corporate sphere, I think.

[00:07:18] ZOE: Um, and what a tool it was to be able to help convince our stakeholders up in a corporation that, you know, this was the right time for us to take this on. And, um, so yeah, so you adapt and you're resilient. You're absolutely right, but you also use what you can that's around you at any time. And for me, like that, you know, talk, looking back at.

[00:07:37] ZOE: All the things that changed and the milestones across that time. You know that 2018 window was a real pivotal one where ESGO obviously sort of like became big talk within boardrooms all over the world. 

[00:07:50] JENN: I'd love to get a little bit more into where we stand now, but before we do, I'd love to just hear more about your role at EQT Infra and what does your day-to-day look like?

[00:08:02] JENN: What are your responsibilities, and then maybe we can go from there. 

[00:08:05] ZOE: Sure. So yeah, the role is head of sustainability for the infrastructure business line at EQT. Um, I've been there for three years now. Um, and that was a newly created role at the time as well when I joined. Um, EQT has been, I would say, you know, one of the leading gps, you know, one of the leading firms in the private markets.

[00:08:25] ZOE: Sphere on sustainability since its inception 30 years ago. So I joined an organization that knew how to do this and had been doing it for a, a very long time. So my role was really to come in and say, how can we take this to the next level within this business? And specifically around how can we better really integrate sustainability throughout the deal cycle and really realize that value creation piece as well.

[00:08:49] ZOE: They're getting a lot more embedded into the deal work and into the investment side of the business. So it was brand new for me. I mean, I hadn't worked in this space before, but what I did feel at the time was, you know, this is a great moment to bring all of the experience I've had on the industry side and on the creating strategy and developing it.

[00:09:07] ZOE: To bring that and really sort of like understand how to unlock value creation in our investment company portfolio companies. So getting back to what my role is, my role covers the whole of the deal cycle, you know, right From working with the deal teams around, you know, our thematic alignment and identifying some of those sectors, sub-sectors where we feel there's great tailwinds.

[00:09:29] ZOE: For us to, you know, look at areas where, you know, yes, the, the financial opportunities there, but also like we can really create a positive impact within these thematic areas as well. So advising right at that stage. Um, and then as we get, develop a pipeline is sort of being a sparring partner to our investment committee, but also to our deal teams.

[00:09:50] ZOE: You know, which of our pipeline opportunities like. Are really gonna be like meaningful from, you know, obviously the fiduciary, the re returns aspects, but you know also from the impact side of things as well, are the high risks there, are there big opportunities there and sparring around that. Then guiding through due diligence, ensuring that we have a thorough understanding of sustainability risks and value creation opportunities.

[00:10:15] ZOE: And then as we go through and potentially acquire any of these companies. That active ownership piece. So five to seven years of active ownership, really sort of like getting under the hood with our portfolio companies and seeing what we can do to really activate the transformation when it comes to sustainability as well.

[00:10:33] ZOE: I love it. It's a really interesting dynamic, exciting job. I get to play along all of those aspects of the deal cycle. Um, yeah. And work really closely with our deal teams to, you know, empower them, educate. And make sure that, you know, it's not just me and my small team that are delivering on sustainability, but it's the whole of that organization as well.

[00:10:53] JENN: It's interesting because we were talking about the field of sustainability and where we're coming from and sort of the pendulum swinging back and forth. And I'm interested in, as you, you know, obviously it's a really exciting process to work with, uh, portfolios, uh, and work with, uh, uh, deal teams, et cetera.

[00:11:13] JENN: And at the same time, we're within this context, uh, around us and I'm interested in how you. Think about where sustainability is going overall. There's the day-to-day, and then it's, okay, well what does the next five years look like and how do we fit into that? So when you think about the field overall, how do you see the, the field evolving over the next five years?

[00:11:37] ZOE: Obviously, it's hard to predict, but we've seen these cycles before in sustainability. You know, we could call this, whatever we want to call it, a backlash, a you know, a retreat. Uh. I don't think it has to be any of those things. Yes, there's noise going on and there is definitely headwinds for sure. No one's denying that.

[00:11:57] ZOE: I actually think this, you know, and I'm optimist as most people in sustainability are and have to be. But you know, what is the silver lining to this phase, this, this place we're in now? And for me, I think it is really talk less, do more, and let's prove it. You know, we know. Sustainability is a lever for value creation.

[00:12:20] ZOE: Let's just prove it out. Let's just make it happen. We don't need to talk about it. We've been in the headlines, we've had lots of conversations. We've been on lots of stages and done lots of presentations at times where people wanted us there and they wanted to hear from us about sustainability. And right now that isn't the case and that's fine.

[00:12:38] ZOE: People wanna talk about ai, people wanna talk about other things, that's fine. But our work is still out there to be done. And those proof points are still out there to be proved. So for me, it's like a, okay, this head down, let's just crack on. I've got dozens of portfolio companies, we've got all these sustainability levers all lined up.

[00:12:58] ZOE: We know exactly what we wanna do on all of them. Let's just do the work and it will speak for itself. 

[00:13:03] JENN: I love this. Talk less, do more. Zoe, I think that might be the name of this particular episode. I think you just named the episode. Um, and you've got, speaking of doing and driving toward outcomes, obviously that's really inspiring.

[00:13:17] JENN: And coming back to the, the reality, you've got a small team, a lot of portfolio companies, how do you engage and partner with portfolio companies to drive toward these 

[00:13:29] ZOE: outcomes? So I think I approach it in the same way that I've kind of described approaching all key stakeholders. You know, whether you are a corporate sustainability leader within a business, or you are, you know, in a role similar to mine, where you've got, you know, multiple portfolio companies, um, to look after.

[00:13:46] ZOE: And I think it's, it's really sort of getting to know the customer. You know, and I call the customer, let's call them the portfolio company in this, in this, on this occasion, and you know, what is their motivation? Where are they? Understand where they are, understand their motivations, understand what's going on around them, um, and you know what's working for them and what's not working for them.

[00:14:09] ZOE: So I, I love it when we, when we finished our due diligence and we go on to acquire a portfolio company, for me that time is like a right, let's validate all that we read about and heard about. You know, typically through a third party in many instances during our due diligence process. On paper, this company is, they've got this, they've got that.

[00:14:30] ZOE: They don't have this, they don't have that. And when we go on to acquire a portfolio company, we do a sustainability onboarding very soon after the acquisition. Um, and you know, we do that with the deal team, but we also do it with the sustainability appointed lead at the organization. Sometimes in a bigger organization, um, mature organization, they've got ahead of sustainability.

[00:14:51] ZOE: Sometimes they've got a small team, team around them as well. In others, it's the head of hr, it's the strategy leader who's been double, you know, given the, um, honor of, um, having sustainability to lead as well. So whoever that person is, we get to know them and we build a relationship. And I think for me, that is key to how do we get things done?

[00:15:13] ZOE: We understand who we are working with, who's our counterpart, and how to make them successful. I think to get to that, we need to, one, have an understand, a shared understanding. We need to have trust and that good relationship in place. Then we need to understand what are just like the two or three key sustainability levers that we want to achieve over the next five years here.

[00:15:34] ZOE: Um, and it's at EQT, at, like in infrastructure we call it, you know, we have a couple of, in two or three material areas and some targets associated with that. But we have one real. Really cool one, stability transformation, KPI and Target. And it's a five-year target and it's something that that organization can really use as a commercial differentiator as we think about exits, but as they think about sort of like much longer term, what is that one thing for this company that's gonna really unlock either top line revenue, increase profitability increase.

[00:16:11] ZOE: You know, right to win, um, in their respective market, be the employer of choice, best employer of choice in their industry. We nail down what is it that we want to, what's that shared vision essentially. And then I think when you are a lot more targeted and specific, and you really tie it back to commercial outcomes, you can get the right people on the right page.

[00:16:31] ZOE: So once you have the relate the foundations of a relationship in place, you know what you're shooting for, you know that vision, and you've got a plan of how to get there. Then I would say the other really critical pieces is who are the sort of like people, you know, the, the governance, the upward side of it, um, and getting the buy-in there as well.

[00:16:50] ZOE: So at EQT for example, we have a sustainability board champion for all of our affiliate companies. So we appoint someone at the board level who can really guide, advise, and ask the right challenging questions. Um, but it also. Bought into what that vision and what that transformational target is and what we're trying to achieve in the roadmap.

[00:17:11] ZOE: So for a long-winded answer, PO possibly, um, but I think there like maybe three or four of the key components, like how do we set our portfolio companies up for success and get the right buy-in to make change and, and create those outcomes and realize that value creation from the outset we've identified.

[00:17:30] JENN: It's really inspiring. I think that, you know, I'm reflecting on one of the things that sustainability professionals often love to do is have the a hundred KPIs or have the sort of long list and, and to be fair, data's required, uh, for limited partners. Um, and, and that's part of the process for sure. What strikes me about your answer is that you have in mind a couple of areas where there's a opportunity for a real material difference, and then you hone in on, uh, one particular target that's commercially related.

[00:18:04] JENN: This idea of having sort of a support structure around that change governance, and then tying to value creation, I can really see how that would. Align both, uh, members of the team at EQT as well as, uh, members of the senior leadership team around. Similar goals and also make it a little bit more, you know, uh, easy to take in and think about, well, what do I do when there are a lot of other change initiatives going on in my organization?

[00:18:35] JENN: If I have, you know, two or three areas that I'm really focusing on most, I can imagine that that makes it a little bit easier for teams to, uh, feel like they're making progress. 

[00:18:45] ZOE: No, I think that's a great summary of it.

[00:18:50] JENN: Hey, it's Jen. I just wanted to take a quick moment to let you know a bit about Ricoh and what we do. We're a tech enabled advisory firm that helps private market investors and companies measure sustainability metrics using our software platform. We also help you to set targets and focus your efforts on sustainability areas that really matter for your business.

[00:19:12] JENN: And finally, we help clients to translate all of this work into your core value creation strategy or your business model, check us out@re.co.com to get in touch. All right, now back to our conversation. 

[00:19:27] ZOE: I think one of the other things that I've probably experienced and learned from over the years is sustainability is so vast.

[00:19:35] ZOE: It's filled with all the abbreviations, like the, you know, it is complicated. The people that don't live and breathe this every day. So I think one of the things that has stuck with me and what I've probably done more and more of, um, is just keep it simple. How do you keep it simple and not because the people on the other side don't?

[00:19:54] ZOE: Don't have the brain capacity to get it, but everyone's got their own thing in front of them. They're all focused very much on, you know, what is my job here? What am I, and with sustainability, you are very often, you know, no one has the luxury of just being a, you know, all I have to do in my life is just deliver on these couple of sustainability objectives.

[00:20:13] ZOE: You know, it is piled with other firefighting things going on. So we just have to keep it simple. Otherwise you just, it, it won't stick. So I think, yeah, I mean, it's. Maybe people reach this, um, conclusion, uh, sooner than I did in my career. But for me it's like you just keep it simple. And I think the other thing that I just wanted to add on top of that is, you know, I talked about like get the vision, get the right people, get the accountability and the governance locked in to the extent where if me and my team didn't come back to this company, didn't come back to the deal team during this ownership period.

[00:20:49] ZOE: Would we have done enough to set 'em up for success after that initial engagement? And if we're like, yeah, really we should have done, they've got a five-year roadmap. They've got a shared vision, they've got the buy-in from the, from the stakeholders around them. The deal team's bought into it. They're gonna be there pushing and driving along the way.

[00:21:07] ZOE: I mean, obviously we, we don't, and we keep coming back and we support 'cause things change. But yeah, that's one of the tests that I, I, you know, in my head I'm like. Have we done enough? If we left them alone, could they, could they go do it? 

[00:21:19] JENN: Have the changes that have been made or the influence, is it embedded somehow in the organization?

[00:21:25] JENN: Yeah. And it sounds like it's embedded when you're meeting people where they are and you're understanding what their incentives are and engaging them so that, you know, the, the initiatives are co-created in a way. It's simple enough that they understand the technical side. 'cause actually. Once you take out the jargon, I find, I don't know if if you'd agree with this, Zoe, but I find, um.

[00:21:47] JENN: If I'm working with an ops person or I'm working with someone in sales or finance, they have great ideas. Um, it's just they don't know all the acronyms. Um, and that's completely fair. 

[00:21:59] ZOE: A hundred percent. I mean, how many times have you, all of us right, heard people start a conversation with, you know, a stakeholder in another part of the business going, well, I'm not an expert of sustainability, but.

[00:22:13] ZOE: It's like, well, I don't think any of us are experts at sustainability. Right? Right. So don't, you don't even need to start your sentence like that, but there's this whole like. Almost feeling threatened that they haven't got a sustainability background, that they don't have the ideas, when actually all the best ideas come from all around you across the business.

[00:22:32] JENN: So for listeners, I've seen Zoe in action and she's very engaging and she is, uh, it's impossible to work with Zoe and not feel inspired to wanna make a contribution. And I'm really interested in like double clicking on how that happens. Um, so let's do that through a scenario. Perhaps, you know, you're. Um, this is a fictitious portfolio company.

[00:22:54] JENN: You've just, they've just come into the portfolio. They don't have a track record of sustainability. They're a little skeptical. They're busy. There's a lot of change happening. How do you start building that relationship? You know, maybe they have this idea of. Oh, like Zoe's gonna come in and just criticize what we're doing or whatever else.

[00:23:14] JENN: Like how do you, have you been a fly in the war, Jen? How do you, how do you, what steps do you take to start building that relationship? Baby 

[00:23:25] ZOE: steps, I would say, I mean, we've had lots of situations, lots of scenarios that have played out like this. I mean, what's fascinating is you get everything right. So those companies where.

[00:23:37] ZOE: You know, we've had companies that, you know, the business itself is doing some great start. You know, the per, let's say, the mission of the business, I'm gonna make this up. It's a renewables company and they're like, oh yeah, sustainability. We are doing it. We're a renewables company. We are like, we have a pivotal role to play in the energy transition.

[00:23:57] ZOE: We are accelerating decarbonization, all of this, our work on sustainability. Surely we don't need to do anything else other than grow the company. So that's always a really interesting one. And we've had a few of those. Um, and that's not, you know, and that's completely reasonable position to take and a view of a founder who set up this company that's very purpose led, very purpose driven.

[00:24:18] ZOE: So for me, when I come across that, I'm like, okay, that's great. That is the, you've got the, what we do covered amazing. Your business is like doing exactly the right things. So in that scenario, it's about working with the, the CEO, the founder and saying, you know, there's also another element of sustainability, which is super important.

[00:24:45] ZOE: Um, and if we want to have a successful exit in five years time, it's a really important area that we cover because this is what the next buyer is gonna be checking and diligencing against, and that's how we deliver what we do. So it's that not only what you do, which if you are mission oriented purpose there, you're doing something wonderful for the world is sustainable, is great, big, big tick, but it's how you're delivering that.

[00:25:15] ZOE: With that, I'm talking about where are you buying your component parts for your solar panels? What does that supply chain look like? What are the human rights risks of where you are buying? What's the embodied energy and carbon associated with where you are buying those component parts from? How are you disclosing all of that to your stakeholders currently today?

[00:25:36] ZOE: Because as you grow and become a more significant business and more significant player in the industry. Your customer base is gonna want to know that and your future employees are gonna want to know all of this. Your next buyer is certainly gonna want to know all of this. And by the way, how are you also making sure that when you apply for a new solar project you know that you are gonna be able to get the permits in a very sort of streamlined, efficient way without any backlash from your local communities?

[00:26:06] ZOE: That is gonna be part of your license to operate going forward. So anyway, I'll stop the, I I'm really role playing here. I'm really getting into this one, but I think my point is it's, you know, that's a scenario where you just have to break it down, explain the risks and the admittance in a language that's gonna resonate with the person you're talking to.

[00:26:27] ZOE: In this case, uh, you know, you know, in this case with a founder with a CEO exit. You know, we are all gonna be focused on that exit. How do we get to the exit that we want? Um, and break it down into its components, parts to lead up to that. So, anyway. Is that, hopefully that fills you in a little bit in some of the sort of like how I would approach that kind of situation.

[00:26:49] JENN: I'm feeling motivated, I feel like I'm Okay, good. I'm the founder and I am I. Okay. I wanna get to that exit. How do I do it? Zoe? This is, uh, this is, 

[00:26:58] ZOE: I totally, I totally hear that. I'm, I'm really making this seem like it's, and very straightforward and of course it's not at all, and these are multiple conversations that don't always go right.

[00:27:08] ZOE: And take a lot of different attempts and different tactics all the time. Um, so I think it's about resilience, but also just, um, what's the word? Never giving up. Like I am. Just like, you just have to keep going, keep going, and get used to having doors shut in your face. And then opening them up again and going, hi, it's me again.

[00:27:27] ZOE: Let's talk again. 

[00:27:29] JENN: Another thing that I've observed, uh, Zoe, is that, uh, the approach that you take, you know, the work that we've done together is very, um, collaborative, celebrating successes, and also having a high standard, you know, there's an element of, it doesn't feel like you're giving a report card.

[00:27:51] JENN: You know, it feels like, uh, in the work that we've done together that, uh, you know, you're, you're thinking about. How do we inspire this team to do more in line with what I'm, with, what I'm trying to do? Mm-hmm. That's been our experience. Um, now obviously we're not a portfolio company, but is there anything that you'd like to share?

[00:28:12] JENN: Just on the combination of sort of positive reinforcement and, uh, also then trying to push, uh, colleagues in a direction that takes 'em to the next level. 

[00:28:22] ZOE: Yeah. So I mean it is very much how I go about it. I think, you know, whether we call it celebrating successes or building, you know, kind of acknowledging, again, it gets back to acknowledging like and meeting the stakeholder where they are.

[00:28:37] ZOE: And you know, you can give a report card, but that seems a little bit unfair 'cause somebody started at least 20 years ago versus the person that you're gonna be working with who's just, you know, just starting out a year ago. I mean, I'm just a believer a positive reinforcement is more motivating and you know, particularly where good stakeholder relationships and trust are the building blocks of mutual success.

[00:29:02] ZOE: It might be a personality choice, but that is just like how I. Lead and, and you know where, and I, I think it, it gets, it seems to certainly get the results that we need and it's a lot more fun and rewarding going at it in a very positive way than the, than the reverse going, well, here's what you haven't done, rather than, here's what you've done and this is great, and these are all the foundational elements.

[00:29:28] ZOE: And you know, what, how are we gonna build on this next, this is what's gonna come next. 

[00:29:32] JENN: We are coming to the end of our conversation. I have a couple more questions that I've got to, to ask Zoe. So we spoke at the beginning of our conversation around this is this sustainability space can get complicated, lots of acronyms, lots of change, new legislation.

[00:29:49] JENN: How do you keep up to date? 

[00:29:51] ZOE: I read a lot, well, as much as I can in between life and work and everything else. Um, news generally like the ft, the Economist. Any paper I can get my hands on, particularly when I'm traveling and I have a bit more time to sort of absorb. Um, so really understanding what's going on in the world for that broader context.

[00:30:11] ZOE: The global macro, you know. Absolutely critical for sustainability to know what else is happening out there, um, and what we're up against and what's a headwind, what's a tailwind and all the rest of it. But then also, you know, all of our industry. Very helpful. Daily and weekly round summary news. Um, emails as well, you know, anything Bloomberg agreeing to, you know, infra invest, uh, infrastructure investor.

[00:30:37] ZOE: A lot of the private markets, um, newsletters as well. Also the sort of vertical topical news. So, you know, we do a lot of investing around the energy transition. So anything that's sort of like reports, deep reports from the international energy, um, agency and, and, and everything in between. So I would say I like to get broad perspectives.

[00:30:58] ZOE: I think it's really important to get different perspectives. You know, I wanna know what, you know, the, like the major oil and gas companies are talking about. I wanna read their newsletters as well, um, and keep it balanced so I know what's going on in the world. So a bit of everything. I've got a to read folder on my desktop, which is hilarious 'cause I mean, I can never actually get on top of it because there's so much in there.

[00:31:20] ZOE: Just in the last two days, I've added, we've got the new BCG perspectives, the new EDCI report sustainability in private markets 2025, which. That will be my read. If I can get through it to date, great. If not, it'll be the weekend. And then a look, really interesting report, the Energy Transition Outlet report by DNV, which looks super interesting and that's gonna be my weekend read as well.

[00:31:42] ZOE: So a bit of everything, not very helpful, but I think the point is lots of different perspectives. 

[00:31:48] JENN: I think that's, I think that's a great point. And so you have a bit of time, well, you carve out time on the weekend or you carve out time and I, I guess in the mornings or so you mm-hmm. Constantly rate my train journeys, 

[00:31:59] ZOE: like where I do the reading as well.

[00:32:00] JENN: Yeah. The commute. Uh, that's, yeah. That's inspiring. Now the final question I have is my favorite question. Uh, if you had to choose one book that's most shaped the way you think, what book would that be and, and why? Okay, well 

[00:32:15] ZOE: this one, thank you for giving me a heads up that this question was coming 'cause it did require a little bit of thinking and I love a business book, got a whole bookshelf of them and I've read a, a lot and you take a little bit away from each one I think.

[00:32:29] ZOE: But one that's really, um, stuck with me and it feels a bit cliched even saying it is the Simon Sinek Start with y. Um, and I read that many, many years ago and I've listened to podcasts about it. It's such a simple way of thinking, but it's so important. And I think in our roles is sustainability. That's state.

[00:32:48] ZOE: We've talked a lot about stakeholder management and with that is it's all about communication. So for me, that's a fundamental lesson that I took from that and an approach that I just apply consciously and subconsciously. Now all the time, but that's not the one that I wanted to say. 'cause I feel like everyone's read that one and everyone would say the same thing.

[00:33:10] ZOE: The one, and this has been great because I went through my bookshelf and I found the book and I was like, this is the one to answer the question with. And it's business as unusual by any to Rodrick. She published it in 2000, so it is 25 years old at this stage. And you can tell by the, the, my book is slightly brown.

[00:33:30] ZOE: I mean, it looks like fairly, I dunno if I bought it secondhand, but it was, it looks fairly well used and, and quite old at this type point. And I haven't read it in absolutely years. But one of the other reasons I talked about acid rain, what got me started on this journey. What sort of like took the whole, like the wanting to save the planet to.

[00:33:49] ZOE: I want to do business and I wanna use business to be the vehicle to make change was, I really think it was Anita Rod or she certainly had such a massive influence in me sort of thinking, ah, business is a vehicle to make change and actually can make a lot of change if you do it right. And that book says it all and it's 25 years old, but it's all about business for good.

[00:34:14] JENN: And here you are. Yeah. 25 years later and that's what you dedicated your career to. 

[00:34:19] ZOE: And I love it to this day and I still feel there's so much more to do. And thank you, because I'm now rereading this book that actually was so pivotal to me when I read it. I mean, nearly 20 years ago. I read it a long time ago.

[00:34:34] ZOE: Maybe it was fif between 15 and 20 years ago. I dunno. And I'm reading it again now, so thank 

[00:34:37] JENN: you, Zoe. Thank you. Thanks so much for joining us on The Future in Sound podcast. Thanks for having me.

[00:34:50] JENN: The Future in Sound podcast is written and hosted by Jen Wilson and produced by Chris Attaway. This podcast is brought to you by Ricoh, a tech powered advisory company helping private market investors pursue sustainability objectives and value creation in tandem. If you enjoyed this podcast, don't forget to tell a friend about it, and if you have a moment to rate us in your podcast app, we'd really appreciate it.

[00:35:15] JENN: Until next time, thanks for listening.